To continue sallys effort to inform us on Vitamin D, I found this interesting tidbit from a newspaper article.
quote from globe and mail:
The biggest bombshell about vitamin D's effects is about to go off. In June, U.S. researchers will announce the first direct link between cancer prevention and the sunshine vitamin. Their results are nothing short of astounding.
A four-year clinical trial involving 1,200 women found those taking the vitamin had about a 60-per-cent reduction in cancer incidence, compared with those who didn't take it, a drop so large — twice the impact on cancer attributed to smoking — it almost looks like a typographical error.
And in an era of pricey medical advances, the reduction seems even more remarkable because it was achieved with an over-the-counter supplement costing pennies a day.
One of the researchers who made the discovery, professor of medicine Robert Heaney of Creighton University in Nebraska, says vitamin D deficiency is showing up in so many illnesses besides cancer that nearly all disease figures in Canada and the U.S. will need to be re-evaluated. "We don't really know what the status of chronic disease is in the North American population," he said, "until we normalize vitamin D status."
Now, tell me why the FDA has set the MDR for vitamin D at paltry 200iu/day and in the last six months they ok'd two drugs for dogs..one for dog anxiety and one for dog obesity ...This is why people are angry with the politics of the FDA...who do they serve and protect?. Its supposed to be us before a black lab..although, i do like black labs..
bj

Hey Bj,
The web site www.knowledgeofhealth.com has 10 to 12 articles on Vitamin D. Interesting stuff.
Duke

Ok, here's a stupid question:
What's the difference between VitaminD and VitaminD3?
I take VitD now-- am I taking the wrong one?

To my understanding there's two supplement forms; vitamin D2 and vitamin D3. D2 is derived from fungal and plant sources while D3 is derived from animal sources.
D3 from salmon is one of the better supplements or so I've heard.
Also, there's no doubt that the RDA for vitamin D is far too low. But then, so are the RDA's for all vitamins. Just enough to keep from getting scurvy (as in the case with vitamin C) but not enough to enhance health.

I think that's about as close to right as possible. :)
What you'd be looking for is cholecalciferol or D3.
And the RDA's...the minimun needed to prevent scurvy, ricketts, etc. but offers no theraputic effects.
What I don't get is we're told that 30 minutes outside in the sun with 30-40% of our body ucovered we get up to 10,000 IU's of D3..but the FDA recommends a daily supplement of 200-400 IU's.
Goofy at best.

Yes, vitamin D3 is now considered as vitamin D ..it should say cholecalciferol on the back of the bottle..often it comes with some calcium...but i would take a calcium supplement anyway.
vitamin D2 is an analog, made by fungus and not as effectively used by the body..i wouldn't take D2
It was only in I think 1967 that accurate tests for vitamin D were developed at the university of Wisconsin..prior to that the knowledge and data is spotty at best.
The FDA guidelines were based on the amounts needed to prevent rickets, on testing which is now known to have been inaccurate and poorly documented, on too small of a sampling from some reports. Some studies had poor documentation and use inaccurate assumptions and anecdotal evidence from the 30's.
Again, its unbelievable, but it shows, without a marketing effort, without patentable analogs and a chance of generous profits....there is just no incentive to promote Vitamin D, let alone any other vitamin, herb or alternative..
...It's only recently.. over the last 8 years that researchers, many unfunded, report with overwhelming evidence its efficacy and need in our diet.
Animals, just as humans make D3 in their skins...most D3 for our use is made from sheep's lanolin...but chemically it is the same cholecalciferol..there is no difference..so buy the cheapest.

aaarrrrgggg- sccrrrrvvvyyy. I can't help it, anytime scurvy gets mentioned, I always think of pirates. :)
Thanks guys-
I tell yall what, I have learned so much about health, and what my body needs from this board! I might also add that mcordy and flakenstein, yall are wonderful new citizens of this community, knowledgeable and so pleasant! And BJ- you are always available to offer a helping hand.
This is very interesting about the RDA. I never knew. When I was getting my 100% of whatever (as per the label of what I was eating/drinking) I felt so good about myself! But after reading this, I went back and examined my orange juice box...ect. I understand now.
Checked my VitD- and it has the cholecalciferol, so I'm in the clear on that one, but I don't think I'm getting enough.
I really don't mean to make this thread about me, me, me-- but I do have one more question:
I am extremely fair skinned, so much so that my derm says that light therapy would be "skin suicide." I burn within minutes of direct sun exposure. What can I say? My father's side is Scottish, my mother's side is German. I'm so white I'm almost blue.
Anyway, so sun exposure has to be minimal. I do go outside, but only with sunscreen, and only in early morning, and late evening. I have read that the only way to get the "good" VitD sun is in the afternoon. Should I be taking more VitD supplements? Or am I doing OK with my morning and evening sun with the sunscreen?
OK yall, I swear that was the last question! Thanks! :)

http://www.beyonddiscovery.org/cont....page.asp?I=436
explains the history of research into the functions of vitamin D in the body. It also refers to the fact that too much vitamin D also has consequences.
My husband is an orthopedic surgeon. At his academy (aaos.org) conference 4 or 5 years ago, he heard a presentation by researchers recommending increased doses of vitamin D all year, but particularly in the winter and in those latitudes with the least sun. Similar references have been in JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association). We take 1600 iu a day in winter, and 800 in summer. I tried taking more after reading the article in JAMA, and it shut down my pth so I had to back off.
My husband is also part of the Physicians Health Study that has been ongoing at Brigham and Women's hospital for around 30 years. Currently the study is focusing on vitamin and mineral supplements: a multi-vitamin, C, zinc, and iron. Until a year or 2 ago, it also included A and E. This was the same group on which the preventive attributes of aspirin was studied - doctors.
This study has 15,000 physicians as its study group, and it is led by the Harvard University Schools of Medicine and Public Health.

another thing I think is important when taking more D and that is calcium....maybe women need more than men? I don't know but while I upped my dose of D I forgot about calcium and started to feel achy...I re-read Krispin's article and found out why! so I went out and bought a higher level "complex" blend making sure I got synergistic benefits of all the minerals.....
here is what Krispin Sullivan says about this:
Actually, vitamin D does not in itself promote healthy bone. Vitamin D controls the levels of calcium in the blood. If there is not enough calcium in the diet, then it will be drawn from the bone. High levels of vitamin D (from the diet or from sunlight) will actually demineralize bone if sufficient calcium is not present.
Vitamin D will also enhance the uptake of toxic metals like lead, cadmium, aluminum and strontium if calcium, magnesium and phosphorus are not present in adequate amounts.18 Vitamin D supplementation should never be suggested without calcium and magnesium supplementation at the same time.

P.S. I just had my full body bone density scan and the gal who gave it did a quick lookover and said everything looked good! but the radiologist will send a full report to my doctor in 2 weeks!

hi sally, i don't know who krispin sullivan is, but I don't think shes exactly right on that. Its PTH with regulates the active form of D called calcitriol (not the supplemental form we take) which effects calcium levels.. and D levels from sunlight are self regulating and don't result in high or low calcium levels.
but I agree with you Sally almost everyone i think needs a calcium supplement. For a few diseases it's not advised.
hi Mary Jean...From all the literature, tests, etc approx 1000iu (25mcg) looks about right.. The Harvard School of public health suggests 1000iu
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutriti...t_vitaminD.html
Unless you have sarcoidosos, some lymphomas, hyperparathryoidism..you have to check.
Remember, there's usually 400iu in your multivitamin.
My sister has a bad case of sarcoidosis..after repeated flairs..her internist had to be reminded she should not take vitamin D..so it's easily overlooked when its needed and when it's not.
jesse lou....Great link!...
for barneys formula i take 1400iu .
hope this helps..bj
actually, mary jean..yes, its all about you!!!
You don't make any vitamin D with sunscreen on..a no 8 sunscreen blocks about 95 %of vitamin D production..i suggest.10 minutes without suncreen then swab it on matey..

Mary "Casper the Ghost" Jean,
Or maybe...
Pirate Jean..
Either way...
I don't want to speak for BJ, but I DID think that he may have had the foresight and knowledge to throw calcium supps into Barneys Formula for just that reason.
I'd be apt to suggest stay out of the sun from 11 to about 1:30 for sure. And BJ's suggestion is sensible. About 10 mins...then lather up!
There are many in the medical profession that are pushing for higher D3 recommendations. I would guess that 1000-2000 IU is reasonable and safe if taken with a calcium or calcium/magnesium supplement as well.
Mark (digging for the buried treasure) Cordy

It is said that women are 40% more inclined towards osteoporous than men so the reason I mentioned getting enough was mainly for the fem viewers
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...&gl=us&ie=UTF-8
another point I'd like to make is when getting your sun allotment remember that the Vitamin D is made on the surface of the skin so don't shower, swim, or towel youself off for at least 30 minutes...60 is better...
for the last two years I would go out and lay in the sun, take a swim, float in the pool, dry myself off and fill the pool with all my vitamin D....
I didn't realize this and wondered why I never saw relief from the P with all my sunning, as others seemed to......then I read on a blog about a doctor (MD) that was trying to get his D levels up and couldn't! He told how he had a cabin and went fishing everyday while there for two weeks...he went without his shirt, sat out for 8 hours at a time, swam to cool off, dried himself from perspiring came home got tested and still below 30....so he wrote to Krispin Sullivan, since she has been working with many of the docs involved with D testing, and she explained about the D sitting on the surface of the skin waiting to get absorbed....
P.S. Krispin wrote the book "Naked At Noon" and is a Clinical Nutrition researcher and educator!
but I'm sure she isn't always right :p

I have never heard that you can wash or rub off the Vitamin D that is made IN your skin after sun exposure. Are you sure about that?

nope...not sure...just what I read :p

well I'll be.....
Sally strikes again. I have to believe this to be true. This from a site I tend to trust.
http://www.mercola.com/2005/jul/5/s...e_vitamin_d.htm
However...if you don't wish to register and "join" this site...the info is cut and pasted below...
Sally...I learned something today. Thanks.
Harvard Professor Defends Sunshine, Vitamin D Link


Evidence that supports vitamin D's profound health benefits continues to mount: Unprotected sun exposure helps the body produce the vitamin D it needs to keep bones healthy and ward off cancers and other ailments. For example:
According to one study, researchers found that men with high exposure to the sun had half the risk of prostate cancer than those with low sun exposure.
Another study found that high levels of vitamin D and calcium appeared to reduce women's risk of premenstrual syndrome, or PMS.
Dr. Giovannucci's Earlier Vitamin D Statements
The above studies' findings should come as no surprise to Harvard Medical School professor Dr. Edward Giovannucci who, in an April speech to the American Association for Cancer Research, spoke out about the proven link between sun exposure and vitamin D production.
While acknowledging the dangers of the sun-related skin cancer melanoma that killed some 8,000 Americans last year, Giovannucci convincingly argued staying away from the sun--and preventing the body from making enough vitamin D on its own--may add as much as 70 more cancer deaths per 100,000 people each year.
Further, during his speech Giovannucci challenged anyone to find an area or nutrient or any other factor that held such consistent anticancer benefits as vitamin D.
Considering the evidence, it's doubtful anyone took that challenge.
Los Angeles Times June 20, 2005 (Registration Required)
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Dr. Mercola's Comment:
Optimizing your sun exposure and levels of vitamin D may, indeed, be one of the most important physical steps you can take in support of your long-term health.
When getting your regular doses of sunshine to receive vitamin D, it is important to remember this crucial point:
If you use the sun for some vitamin D, you really don't have to worry about measuring your vitamin D levels, as sunlight will actually destroy excess vitamin D. It is very difficult to overdose on vitamin D from sun exposure.
***If you are exercising in the sun like I do and sweat quite a bit, please understand that the vitamin D is oil-soluble. So, you won't want to shower immediately after being in the sun as the vitamin D is formed in your skin and can be easily washed off. So cool down after you work out and let your body absorb the vitamin D you produce in your skin after sun exposure.***
Be sure and get outside regularly--that is the key. Take some time for yourself and work up to the point where you get one hour of sun on your skin every day it is possible.
I can assure you that I consider this an essential part of my personal Total Health Program and seek to get in to work around 4-5 a.m. so I can leave early and read out in the sunshine.
Please remember that, in nearly every circumstance, getting your vitamin D by exposing your body to UV light from the sun is the best option. When doing so, however, there are two extremely important points to remember:
Stay away from tanning beds, as they increase your risk of cancer.
Avoid staying in the sun long enough to burn your skin. At the beginning of the season, limit your exposure to perhaps as little as five to 10 minutes a day. Progressively increase your time in the sun so that in a few weeks, you will be able to have normal sun exposure with little risk of skin cancer.
If, for whatever reason, you do require some sun protection, we recently put safe sunscreen in our store. However, you will want to use this AFTER you have had some sun exposure so you can get some of the beneficial effects of the sun and optimize your vitamin D levels.
Related Articles:
The Secret of Vitamin D Production
The Secret Benefits of Vitamin D
Measuring Your Vitamin D Levels: Your Most Important Blood Test?

Good find Mark!......I also found my source....
UV-B The ultraviolet wavelength that stimulates our bodies to produce vitamin D is UV-B. It is sometimes called the "burning ray" because it is the primary cause of sunburn (erythema). However, UV-B initiates beneficial responses, stimulating the production of vitamin D that the body uses in many important processes. Although UV-B causes sunburn, it also causes special skin cells called melanocytes to produce melanin, which is protective.
UV-B also stimulates the production of Melanocyte Stimulating Hormone (MSH), an important hormone in weight loss and energy production.(8)
The reason it is difficult to get adequate vitamin D from sunlight is that while UV-A is present throughout the day, the amount of UV-B present has to do with the angle of the sun's rays. Thus, at higher latitudes, UV-B is present only during midday hours and only has significant intensity in temperate or tropical latitudes. Only 5 percent of the UV-B light range goes through glass and it does not penetrate clouds, smog or fog.
Sun exposure at higher latitudes before 10 am or after 2 pm will cause burning from UV-A before it will supply adequate vitamin D from UV-B. This finding may surprise you, as it did the researchers. It means that sunning must occur between the hours we have been told to avoid. Only sunning between 10 am and 2 pm during summer months (or winter months in southern latitudes) for 20-120 minutes, depending on skin type and color, will form adequate vitamin D before burning occurs.(9)
It takes about 24 hours for UV-B-stimulated vitamin D to show up as maximum levels of vitamin D in the blood. Cholesterol-containing body oils are critical to this absorption process.(10) Because the body needs 30-60 minutes to absorb these vitamin-D-containing oils, it is best to delay showering or bathing for one hour after exposure. The skin oils in which vitamin D is produced can also be removed by chlorine in swimming pools.

This I found truly interesting:
If you are exercising in the sun like I do and sweat quite a bit, please understand that the vitamin D is oil-soluble. So, you won't want to shower immediately after being in the sun as the vitamin D is formed in your skin and can be easily washed off. So cool down after you work out and let your body absorb the vitamin D you produce in your skin after sun exposure.
The first thing I used to do after spending time in the sun for D purposes was take an immediate shower. Learn something every day.
Nice work, Mark.
The skin oils in which vitamin D is produced can also be removed by chlorine in swimming pools.
You too, D Queen! (Sally) :p